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FS#7853 - Remove bloat from archlinux, strike 1

Attached to Project: Arch Linux
Opened by Glenn Matthys (RedShift) - Sunday, 19 August 2007, 16:57 GMT
Last edited by Roman Kyrylych (Romashka) - Monday, 20 August 2007, 11:45 GMT
Task Type Bug Report
Category General
Status Closed
Assigned To No-one
Architecture All
Severity Low
Priority Normal
Reported Version 3.0.5
Due in Version Undecided
Due Date Undecided
Percent Complete 100%
Votes 0
Private No


* kde-common and gnome-menus depends on archlinux-menus: why? I have no problem
with archlinux-menus, but why this is required is total nonsense -> bloat

* KDE branding: why do we have this? The default background for kdm and the kde
desktop have been replaced by something archlinux-specific. IMHO KISS should
keep strict to providing the software in its original form, like the author
intended. The packager should never touch this. And it adds complexity to the

* The installer starts a bunch of services by default, these should be manually
started. SSH can even pose a security risk, and somebody who wasn't paying
attention during the start of the CD would never know.

* Kernel patches in kernel26: lots of useless cruft. We have patches for
most likely broken hardware, that should be fixed upstream, not by the packager!
Why do we even have the arch logo, what good does it have? It even gives
problems with scrolling on some framebuffer devices. We should distribute a
vanilla kernel. If it goes on like this kernel26 will become unmaintainable,
have regression issues and we're already seeing stuff being added and removed
again in the next pkgbuild revision because it gives problems.
This task depends upon

Closed by  Roman Kyrylych (Romashka)
Monday, 20 August 2007, 11:45 GMT
Reason for closing:  Won't implement
Comment by Alessio Bolognino (mOLOk) - Sunday, 19 August 2007, 22:30 GMT
You are the first who complains about archlinux-menus, so probably somebody find it useful, if you don't want that package just remove it and put it in ignorepkg; moreover its installed size is 33.83 KB ...

What's the branding of KDE? The default wallpaper? If you don't like it you can change it. And seriously, why would you care if the PKGBUILD is 6 line longer?

The kernel26 package is mostly a vanilla kernel, the patches applied only add support for some hardware (like the macbook from where I'm writing this :) .
It (usually) doesn't break anything.
I doubt the arch logo breaks anything: Tux or Arch Logo... what's the difference?
Comment by Allan McRae (Allan) - Monday, 20 August 2007, 06:12 GMT
I was too going to put a report about archlinux-menus not really being a dependency of gnome/kde-menus. In the end I couldn't be bothered but it probably should be removed and a post-install message added to gnome/kde-menu. Nothing in XFCE appear to pull it in either.
Comment by Tobias Powalowski (tpowa) - Monday, 20 August 2007, 11:11 GMT
kernel is patched like this for user requests, if you like to have broken systems feel free to remove those patches and run your vanilla kernel.
i would call it more user friendly to have systems that just work, then a broken one.
true it's more work for me but users are just happy to see things fixed and working.

sshd is started during installation, that is true, but! you cannot connect to it by default. hosts.deny doesn't allow connections --> safe use.

every maintainer of the big DEs can brand them as they want --> the one who does the job can do whatever he/she wants if not a thousands of people complain about it.
Also by branding it like this you can see, hey the user X uses Archlinux and not someting else, if it disturbs you just use your own.
im closing this one now.
Comment by Roman Kyrylych (Romashka) - Monday, 20 August 2007, 11:44 GMT
1) AFAIR there were some discussions about archlinux-menus.
I can find only one now though:
I like the idea of making arch-menus part of gnome, kde and xfce4 groups but not a dependency of any other package.

2) We have branded default wallpaper, kdm and splash screen.
We also have wallpaper and splash for Xfce but they are not made default.
We don't have any changes in Gnome. See
I'm not sure which of 3 ways is better, but I'd like to see consistency here.

3) File a separate bugreport if there is not one already (I cannot remember now).

4) Our kernel is *very* good IMO. It is not much different from vanilla.
We don't include things like reiser4, vesa-tng, fbplash/bootsplash or suspend2.
The changes are: unionfs, squashfs (IIRC there was a reason for their inclusion), the latest alsa updates, custom logo and bugfixes.
Including bugfixes right now is sometimes better than waiting for upstream to fix bugs.
As for logo - the only time I see it corrupts framebuffer scrolling is when running Arch in VMware with console in framebuffer mode.

P.S.: sorry, tpowa, I was typing this text for a long time but you've been first to close it. :P