FS#34549 - {mailinglist} remove moderator approval from arch-general or make a public ML

Attached to Project: Arch Linux
Opened by mark (mmm) - Monday, 01 April 2013, 15:07 GMT
Last edited by Allan McRae (Allan) - Monday, 20 May 2013, 22:03 GMT
Task Type Support Request
Category Web Sites
Status Closed
Assigned To Gaetan Bisson (vesath)
Architecture All
Severity Medium
Priority Normal
Reported Version
Due in Version Undecided
Due Date Undecided
Percent Complete 100%
Votes 3
Private No

Details

Hi,

as we all know, arch-general has been locked down to moderator approval after some high-volume ranting (over systemd if I recall correctly).

The situation now is, that when I post a reply/solution to an issue, it waits (usually 6+ hrs) and is rendered useless as delivered too late, other people duplicate effort due to lag on communication and post an answer too, or mine gets disapproved (eg as "already answered,not an issue, etc)..it just makes me angry for wasted effort.

As well it renders arch-general useless to me, the beauty of open community is in collaborating fast, I posted in the list, I got a reply within 1 hr,usually just a few minutes (not necessarily from a dev, but a fellow archer etc.).

Thus, I'd like to ask you to:

#A: open arch-general ML write access again, as the high-vol debate is already faded. If some devs feel bothered, they may sign out off the list.

#B: keep things as is, and provide a new list "arch-gibber" or whatever. There's almost 0 comunication on arch-general now,so..

Thank you,
Mark

PS: this ain't no April's fool. :)
This task depends upon

Closed by  Allan McRae (Allan)
Monday, 20 May 2013, 22:03 GMT
Reason for closing:  Won't fix
Comment by Karol Błażewicz (karol) - Monday, 01 April 2013, 18:51 GMT
I've been bitten by this too, but once you're an unmoderated subscriber things should be back to normal. If the moderator approves your post, you can post directly to the ML and not wait for moderator's approval.

I don't see how a moderated ML impacts the speed you get answers to your queries. It can happen once or twice, but that's the price for ML order. Do you believe that only those subscribers who still are under moderation can help you with your issues?
For fast answers, there's always IRC. I'm not sure about off-list e-mails.
Comment by mark (mmm) - Monday, 01 April 2013, 20:34 GMT
@Karol
.."but once you're an unmoderated subscriber " yes, but what is usually important is rising the question quickly or getting a fast first answer.
Moderation brings a considerable delay to post/asnw issues. No, I was saying any archer can help me.

Against IRC, ML is archived and I search before asking, so some answers can be reused. Also, the poor moderator's time would be saved for something more useful than reading ppls' mails.
Comment by Gaetan Bisson (vesath) - Friday, 26 April 2013, 09:07 GMT
Mark: I consider the moderator's time (my time) well spent, as when I skim through a stupid message once before rejecting it, it saves hundreds of people on the mailing list from having to do the same before deciding it is not worth their attention. Believe me, quite a few "contributors" to arch-general do not realize special etiquette is required when addressing hundreds of people; they post rubissh, half-assed bug reports, merely reply "+1" or "I have that same bug too", and clutter the otherwise constructive discussions with tons of worthless messages. I feel arch-general has half-recovered from the flamewars that happened just before its moderation started since a few advanced users and developers have started reading and replying to messages there again. The only reason for this is that they are not bothered by the high volume of crap like they used to. Let us not lose this. A mailing list is not an IRC channel anyway: people are supposed to spend a significant amount of thought before sending it to hundreds of people. Spending one hour to research a bug before reporting it does not seem too much to me. What we need on arch-general is not more people posting to it or less lag in letting messages through, but to keep the knowledgeable contributors we have brought back through moderation.
Comment by Tom Rand (t0m5k1) - Monday, 20 May 2013, 17:55 GMT
@Gaetan
If this is the case then why is it people remain unmoderated for the exact same actions you accuse me for?
namely:
top posting: you have corrected me I think once maybe twice yet I regularly see others do it repeatedly.
systemd debacle: I gave 1 response to that which if I am correct you rejected as just adding fuel to a fire.

Since then the few responses I have given are also rejected for reasons you say are not allowed yet happen all the time.
yes I understand it is a tiresome job, but you (and others?) decided to take it on so I think you need to focus more on the unmoderated than those you have already flagged.

Quote:" what is good for the goose is good for the gander!"

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