Performed a new install of x86-64 on a new HDD. Installed the base packages and used grub. Latest kernel installed.

Tried booting the new install and received the same failure as reported for the two other drives.

One difference...the usb devices remained enabled to allow ..."reboot" from "ranfs$ recovery which did not occur with the subject hdd's...usb failed on those drives since the keyboard and mouse devices were disabled(lights went out).

Thus, it seems a problem exists with the kernel and its companion mkinitcpio and klibc packages.

Entering ...rootdelay=8,10,16 each in turn gave no change.

The root uuid is not detected. Maybe its udev or autodetect?

See also :
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=575922#p575922

My system is intel 945GCM S2C and has a legacy USB item in BIOS which allows usb boot devices.

Some initrd activity is shutting down usb HDD so the root device is not recognized.

This looks similar to  FS#15282 
@Ray: see the comment in that report.

Read the comment on FS12582.

Additional comment on my bug report. The install of kernel "30" in the new drive with x86_64 was successful when using an external usb device but it failed to boot when using that device.

With the HDD installed in another external device, the system booted. This indicates that the external devices are causing the problem by not responding to boot activity.

I note that the successful boot sequence shows USB shuts down, restarts,shuts down and then restarts to remain enabled for the completion of the boot. This occurs during initrd.

The drives which do not boot do not display that usb activity. The usb during initrd shuts off and stays off. Since my system uses usb boot, it fails to boot.

No help occurs with rootdelay changes.

I note that when running mkinitcpio -p kernel26 in the chroot to the failed drive that a note occurs as follows:

find: /sys/devices....no such file or directory.........

mkinitcpio's autodetection fails unless /sys is mounted.

Comment indicates that /sys be mounted when in chroot? Is that correct?

Yes - it's time to add a warning message and disable autodetection in mkinitcpio if /sys is missing, I just always seem to forget to do it.

Chrooted into sdb3.
cd /etc............nano mkinitcpio.conf...removed hook "autodetect" saved...
ran mkinitcpio -p kernel26

exit

reboot

Usb still stays disabled during initrd.

Tried fallback...same result..no usb

Cannot understand why the Maxtor HDD with new install to kernel "30" boots in a given enclosure device. USB boot....

However, an upgraded Western Digital HDD to kernel "30" cannot boot in the same enclosure because USB is disabled during initrd.

What is the difference between an upgrade and a new install to the same kernel?

Is it caused by the new usb-start-ehci-first.conf which was not actually active in kernel "29"?

Why should all usb be disabled and stay disabled? Most of initrd doesn't run due to loss of usb (almost immediately in the sequence).

Is this an enclosure problem or a HDD problem or a kernel problem?

Tried many times to correct things...mounted root,boot,/proc/sys/tmp all into /mnt...chroot /mnt......ran mkinitcpio -p kernel26.....exit reboot.....still fail due to no usb.

Why no usb?

Arch is not "simple" to repair after upgrade oops..................

Why does a new install usb boot correctly boots but an upgrade does not usb boot..no usb?

Both original HDD and backup do not usb boot after upgrade to kernel "30".

I suspect not many users use usb boot............

Right now, I see no reason why they should behave differently. Do the USB modules load in both cases (check "lsmod" from the emergency shell for usb-storage, {e,o,u}hci_hcd)? Can you compare the file list of both initramfs images (zcat /boot/kernel26.img | cpio -t). Both should contain at least ehci_hcd, one of ohci_hcd or uhci_hcd, usb-storage, scsi_mod and sd_mod. Also are there any messages displayed on the console when udev is started (and modules should be loaded)?

The "ehci first" modprobe file is not new, it has been there for a while, it just needed to be renamed due to a change in modprobe. This file fixes some USB bugs, but shouldn't cause any.

You're saying that you tried both hard drives from the same USB enclosure, so there must be a difference in the initramfs images - I don't see what this difference might be though.

Right now, I see no reason why they should behave differently. Do the USB modules load in both cases (check "lsmod" from the emergency shell for usb-storage,

I am not sure what you mean by emergency shell...is it ..ramfs$ ...? If so, that is dead as a doornail with no usb for keyboard and mouse.........

Also are there any messages displayed on the console when udev is started (and modules should be loaded)?

If any messages are displayed I cannot access them because all activity is disabled.

Can you compare the file list of both initramfs images (zcat /boot/kernel26.img | cpio -t). Both should contain at least ehci_hcd, one of ohci_hcd or uhci_hcd, usb-storage, scsi_mod and sd

Am I to do this compare using chroot into failed hdd? I tried lsusb and it didn't do diddly in chroot.

> USB keyboard

Right, no usb means on keyboard, this limits our recovery capability a bit.

> Messages on the console

If you omit the "quiet" option from the kernel commandline (it's not there by default), you should see all messages about hardware and potential hardware problems (USB timeouts and such). If everything is quiet after "Loading udev ..." then something is wrong. It's possible everything scrolls by too fast though-

> Comparing initramfs

You can just use the above command on any initramfs image (it's just a gzipped cpio archive), it doesn't matter which system is actually booted. Just boot any system that works and compare the filelists of the initramfs image on the working and non-working system.

You can just use the above command on any initramfs image (it's just a gzipped cpio archive), it doesn't matter which system is actually booted. Just boot any system that works and compare the filelists of the initramfs image on the working and non-working system.

I assume you mean I can boot with the new install hdd but have the non-booting hdd connected in usb enclosure and run the zcat...but how to run it on the non-booting hdd?

I will try the "quiet" option but expect no new revelation.

zcat on this booting HDD gave a long listing which included the ehci, uhci, usb-storage modules. I don't know if it will work on the non-booting hdd without a chroot.

This will take some time......

Please bear with me on this point.

Supposedly kernel "30" eliminates the rootdelay= parameter.

When in kernel "29" I utilized rootdelay=8 to permit booting and entered that in /etc/grub.

I cannot understand why the error message requests entering rootdelay=10 or greater if mkinitcpio for kernel "30" eliminates rootdelay= as an option.

The kernel command line entry in boot has rootdelay=8 since it was entered in kernel "29" into grub.

Can this entry be the cause of failure to boot?

If so, why is there no warning to remove same from the grub file?

This would explain why the new installation boots and the upgrade doesn't.

rootdelay just works differently: If you pass rootdelay=10 (the new default), our init script will wait at most 10 seconds - however, if the boot device shows up before that, it will stop waiting. This is much less dumb behaviour than before, where you would wait too long most of the time. However, this shouldn't change your problem - if anything, it would work better, not worse.


Please access the initramfs from the non-working hard drive and check for the presence of the required modules there. The booting one seems to be alright with ehci, uhci and usb-storage (Caution: Some motherboards use uhci, some use ohci. If you have autodetection enabled in mkinitcpio, the hard drive will only boot on a machine with the same controller that the initramfs was built with. If you disable autodetection, both ohci and uhci will be present and it will boot on all machines).


As to finding the reason for your problem, I still have nothing, I'll keep thinking.

I hope you understand that I entered the rootdelay=8 into /boot/grub menulist in kernel "29" and it is still there in menu list no need to edit every boot time.

One item of interest is that the kernel-headers are "29" type in the non-booting hdd.

I assume removing autodetect from mkinicpio.conf is what you intend?

> I hope you understand that I entered the rootdelay=8 into /boot/grub menulist in kernel "29" and it is still there in menu list no need to edit every boot time.

That's no problem, although with the new mkinitcpio, it is not necessary anymore.

> One item of interest is that the kernel-headers are "29" type in the non-booting hdd.

The "kernel-headers" package, despite its name, has nothing to do with the kernel. Those are actually the headers that glibc has been built against, and they must not be changed unless a new glibc is built against them.

> I assume removing autodetect from mkinicpio.conf is what you intend?

You can leave it in there. The fallback image is identical to the normal image, except that fallback is built without the autodetect hook. If something doesn't work with the normal image, you always still have the fallback image without autodetection.


To satisfy my curiosity, can you upload both kernel26.img files (from the working and the broken hdd) to the bug tracker? Also paste the kernel-line from each grub configuration. This way we can finally find out if this is a kernel bug or a bug in the initramfs.

/sys
/dev
/dev/null
/dev/zero
/dev/console
/dev/mem
/lib
/lib/klibc-UqSadMgryalzKq_XarP9XnQvbXQ.so
/bin
/bin/cat
/bin/chroot
/bin/dd
/bin/dmesg
/bin/false
/bin/fstype
/bin/halt
/bin/ipconfig
/bin/kill
/bin/kinit
/bin/ln
/bin/lodel
/bin/losetup
/bin/lsmod
/bin/mdassemble
/bin/minips
/bin/mkdir
/bin/mkfifo
/bin/mknod
/bin/moddeps
/bin/mount
/bin/mv
/bin/nfsmount
/bin/nuke
/bin/parseblock
/bin/pivot_root
/bin/poweroff
/bin/readlink
/bin/reboot
/bin/replace
/bin/resolve-modalias
/bin/resume
/bin/run-init
/bin/sh
/bin/sleep
/bin/sync
/bin/true
/bin/umount
/bin/uname
/sbin
/sbin/depmod
/sbin/insmod
/sbin/modinfo
/sbin/modprobe
/sbin/rmmod
:5492 blocks

/bin/modprobe
/init_functions
/init
/config
/etc
/etc/modprobe.d
/etc/modprobe.d/usb-load-ehci-first.conf
/sbin/udevd
/sbin/udevadm
/lib/udev
/lib/udev/rules.d
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-storage.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/64-device-mapper.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/64-md-raid.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/80-drivers.rules
/lib/udev/firmware.sh
/lib/udev/path_id
/lib/udev/vol_id
/lib/udev/load-modules.sh
/etc/udev
/etc/udev/udev.conf
/hooks
/hooks/udev
/lib/modules
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/scsi_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/libata.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/pata_acpi.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/ata_generic.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/ata_piix.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/sd_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/block
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/core
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/core/usbcore.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/host
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/host/ehci-hcd.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/host/uhci-hcd.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/storage
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/storage/usb-storage.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/cdrom
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/cdrom/cdrom.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/sr_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-a4tech.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-apple.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-belkin.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-cherry.ko
:
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/sd_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/block
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/core
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/core/usbcore.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/host
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/host/ehci-hcd.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/host/uhci-hcd.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/storage
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/storage/usb-storage.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/cdrom
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/cdrom/cdrom.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/sr_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-a4tech.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-apple.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-belkin.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-cherry.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-chicony.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-cypress.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/input
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/input/ff-memless.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/usbhid
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/usbhid/usbhid.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-drff.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-ezkey.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-gaff.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-gyration.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-kensington.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-kye.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-logitech.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-microsoft.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-monterey.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-ntrig.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-petalynx.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-pl.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-samsung.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-sony.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-sunplus.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-tmff.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-topseed.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/hid/hid-zpff.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/mbcache.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext2
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext2/ext2.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/jbd
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/jbd/jbd.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext3
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext3/ext3.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/modules.dep
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/modules.alias
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/modules.symbols
(END)
This is the booting HDD...Had to do it in segments..............

Not sure how to get the non-booting data since I have to chroot and may not get to copy it outa there. Only path there is usb, possibly.

I will have to type in data in a new comment for the kernel lines.

Kernel line for the booting hdd:

kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/6608f512-df06-461b-aeaa-8b35f8ad47b5 ro

Kernel line for the non booting hdd:

kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/7eb6d9ce-5ae6-4696-a1be-de58597f7235 ro rootdelay=8

Cannot obtain the zcat data in any way I know about on the non-booting drive. The data looks very good for ehci ohci and uhci.

Where's the problem? You simply attach the USB drive, mount it and copy the file.

I assume you mean the zcat /boot/kernel.img | cpio -t command which cannot be administered except in chroot.

Perhaps I misunderstand what is to be done?

Is there another method of copying from a non-booted hdd? Usually root is locked when opening a usb hdd that is mounted under another boot device.

I guess you mean I should copy /boot/kernel26.img ?

/proc
/sys
/dev
/dev/null
/dev/zero
/dev/console
/dev/mem
/lib
/lib/klibc-UqSadMgryalzKq_XarP9XnQvbXQ.so
/bin
/bin/cat
/bin/chroot
/bin/dd
/bin/dmesg
/bin/false
/bin/fstype
/bin/halt
/bin/ipconfig
/bin/kill
/bin/kinit
/bin/ln
/bin/lodel
/bin/losetup
/bin/lsmod
/bin/mdassemble
/bin/minips
/bin/mkdir
/bin/mkfifo
/bin/mknod
/bin/moddeps
/bin/mount
/bin/mount
/bin/mv
/bin/nfsmount
/bin/nuke
/bin/parseblock
/bin/pivot_root
/bin/poweroff
/bin/readlink
/bin/reboot
/bin/replace
/bin/resolve-modalias
/bin/resume
/bin/run-init
/bin/sh
/bin/sleep
/bin/sync
/bin/true
/bin/umount
/bin/uname
:/bin/uname
/sbin
/sbin/depmod
/sbin/insmod
/sbin/modinfo
/sbin/modprobe
/sbin/rmmod
/bin/modprobe
/init_functions
/init
/config
/etc
/etc/modprobe.d
/etc/modprobe.d/usb-load-ehci-first.conf
/sbin/udevd
/sbin/udevadm
/lib/udev
/lib/udev/rules.d
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules
:
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-storage.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/64-device-mapper.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/64-md-raid.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/80-drivers.rules
/lib/udev/firmware.sh
/lib/udev/path_id
/lib/udev/vol_id
/lib/udev/load-modules.sh
/etc/udev
/etc/udev/udev.conf
/hooks
/hooks/udev
/lib/modules
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/scsi_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/scsi_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/libata.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/pata_acpi.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/ata_generic.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/ata/ata_piix.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/scsi/sd_mod.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/block
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/mbcache.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext2
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext2/ext2.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/jbd
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/jbd/jbd.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext3
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/kernel/fs/ext3/ext3.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/modules.dep
/lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/modules.alias
:
lib/modules/2.6.30-ARCH/modules.symbols

:

There are no USB modules in that image, it is not even in the configuration file.
HOOKS="base udev autodetect pata scsi sata filesystems"

I realize that the file is corrupt but is probably that way due to many attempts to correct the difficulty.

I swear they were there originally.

I have tried so many things that I can't even recall.

I will see what is in mkinitcpio.conf niw......

HOOKS='base udev autodetect pata scsi usb usbinput filesystems'

I have repeated the mkinitcpio-p kernel26 command with the boot, root, and /sys in /mnt and chrooted.

The result was success with no comments or errors. Fallback also success.

The /boot/kernel.img is still missing about 200mb (compared to the booting hdd).

Where goeth the missing items?

Problem solved: Researched the wiki for reinstall kernel. Discovered procedures not performed as yet with chroot to system elements. Pacman -U (path to kernel) provided the re-install of kernel along with mkinitcpio which provided the missing kernel.img data.

The problem initially was probably caused by a defective usb hdd enclosure, this enclosure does not permit booting with this hdd but another enclosure permits booting.

I appreciate the support given by Braino in detecting the cause of the loss of usb.

I consider the problem solved as a hardware-induced problem.

I'm having the exact same symptoms, but reinstall or regeneration of kernel.img did not help, ive made sure usb is in the hooks, my root device is nowhere to be found, the same hdd + enclosure worked fine on 2.6.29

problem solved: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/15376

this can be closed